On Friday, March 14, 1997, Interviewer Steve Mason conducted this interview with William Shockley on Late, Late Radio. This transcription leaves out commercial breaks and removes some of the extraneous lines spoken by the interview, since it is quite long. The reception was filled with static, so any errors result from an inability to understand individual words from an AM radio transmission recorded at a distance. Thanks to Marilyn L. for providing the tape.
STEVE: Our lead guest tonight has delivered memorable performances in
feature films like Showgirls...
WILLIAM: Yes
STEVE: Dream Lover, and Robocop. For the last five years he's appeared on the
CBS hit, Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman as Hank Lawson, the moody saloon-keeper
--slash--brothel owner.
WILLIAM: Yep.
STEVE: He will next be seen as General Custer in the CBS telefilm Stolen Women
Sunday night at nine on CBS with--Janine Turner is in that, isn't she?
WILLIAM: Yes, she is.
STEVE: I like that Janine Turner.
WILLIAM: Yeah, I'll bet you do.
STEVE: William Shockley is here. Thank you for coming to the show. How are
you, man?
WILLIAM: I'm great. Thanks for having me.
STEVE: So the thing I want to ask you about before anything else is Showgirls.
WILLIAM: You bet.
STEVE: Showgirls.
WILLIAM: What do you want to know?
STEVE: Well, you worked with the director of Showgirls--Paul Verhoeven--on
Robocops also.
WILLIAM: That's true.
STEVE: What was his intention with Showgirls? I've asked this question of a
number of people who were in the picture: What was he going for?
WILLIAM: Well, you know I can only comment on the scenes that I was in.
STEVE: Okay.
WILLIAM: I thought I was in a very--with Paul as my director--intense, dramatic
film. And that's all I can really go on--from my point of view. And he
was with me on the page on that. And I think that from that point of view
that's where I was at, that's where he was at, and that's all I can
comment on. I know that the overall film had mixed reviews and whatnot.
STEVE: You know, it's funny. See, I found the film to be very entertaining.
WILLIAM: Well, uh--you saw a slice of it that some did--some didn't.
STEVE: See, I thought he was going for a--just a kind--of--a big sort of...
WILLIAM: Tongue in cheek?
STEVE: Yeah. Tongue in cheek kind of thing. But everyone I talked to who was
in the film--and I've interviewed a lot of the cast--said he was uh going
for...
WILLIAM: Drama.
STEVE: Yeah. It was meant to be real--he was dead serious.
WILLIAM: Well, like I said, I can only comment on the stuff that I did. I don't
think that my involvement had any comedic flair or tongue-in-cheekiness to
it. It was pretty straightforward: an punch and burn and crackle and
sizzle like a direct bomb hit should be. That type of role, you know?
STEVE: Sure. It's funny that you can work with Paul Verhoeven and also be
involved in Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman which is like the quintessential
family. It's America's Night of Television.
WILLIAM: Welcome Home.
STEVE: Welcome Home. You know--you look like Mr. Rock and Roll guy.
WILLIAM: Yeah? Well, you know--I think that's acting. You don't get in to
squeeze out white paint the rest of your life onto the canvas. You try to
mix it up and combine colors and go left and go right, and everything in
the middle is gravy. So that's... Dr Quinn and Showgirls, for me, is
the perfect combination of elements.
STEVE: Yeah, You don't see anyone else with Showgirls AND Dr. Quinn on their
bio... (laughter)
WILLIAM: There you go. I can go home now and sleep good tonight.
STEVE: In fact, they handed me your bio and I said Showgirls, Dr. Quinn?
This is a guy we've got to get in. You know, we've interviewed Jane
and the whole gang over there...
WILLIAM: That's right.
STEVE: You hang out at some big ranch there in the valley.
WILLIAM: We do. Paramount Ranch.
STEVE: From talking to people over there your weeks are very, very long.
WILLIAM: They can be. I mean, they're definitely long for the crew. Obviously.
If you're one of the actors if you're working that day you're there. The
crew members and Jane primarily put in tons of hours. 12--14 hours a day. (Steve
coughing/unintelligible) Feel better? I know you don't work that hard. That's why you're coughing. (laughter)
STEVE: Had a little coffee go down the wrong way there...Jane feels... Do you
feel--do you have the sense that it's family television? That you have a
responsibility that it's family television?
WILLIAM: Yeah. I don't think that we have a responsibility necessarily, but it's
definitely 8:00 Saturday night programming, so there are places that you
can and can't go. We are governed by that.
STEVE: As an actor do you have a responsibility to do stuff that is
responsible? That doesn't cross some particular line?
WILLIAM: Definitely not.
STEVE: You don't?
WILLIAM: No.
STEVE: By the way, I don't think you do either.
WILLIAM: No. I'm not a documentarian. I'm an artist. You know? I don't have any
social obligation at all. I'm here just to fantasize and to entertain.
Period.
STEVE: Obviously, you like playing kind of the darker side of things.
WILLIAM: I have. Yeah. I've explored it.
STEVE: Have you explored it in your real life?
WILLIAM: Sure.
STEVE: You have?
WILLIAM: Sure.
STEVE: It's a family show...but can you explain? What's the darker side that
you've explored...what you've looked into?
WILLIAM: Uh--I think just by traveling and being involved in life. Being
involved with humanity. Being involved with what's available, whether it's
legal or illegal. You know, never hurting anyone...but experimentations of
sorts--whether they be relationships--you know--(laughter) or foods or
wines--or food groups...vegetables. (Laughter from both) Yeah.
STEVE: Somehow I think your little four food group chart doesn't look the same
as anybody else's... (laughs)
WILLIAM: Well, no...I mean--I'm just an honest kid. You know?
STEVE: I actually take a very libertarian approach on all this stuff. Sounds
like you do, too--if you're not hurting anybody else.
WILLIAM: Exactly. Without malice. Without, you know, stepping on other toes and
invading another man's turf.
STEVE: Especially in this town some of those things you were referring to can
take hold of you and screw you up pretty badly.
WILLIAM: Absolutely. No, I mean--I'm an adult today. I'm talking about on my
path through life. And I think as long as you don't do anything
excessively and weird... I'm not talking about drug stuff necessarily. I'm
just talking about formulating your own opinion. You can be told don't
have six beers, you'll barf, but until you have six beers and barf you
might not know. You have your own opinion about the whole scene. I mean,
certainly a clean mind and a clean soul is where I think it's at, all the
way, but that opinion has come through living life.
STEVE: And trying things.
WILLIAM: Absolutely. You just experiment and draw you own opinion.
STEVE: Let me ask you something then. In the 80s we heard a lot of just
say no. Do you believe just say no?
WILLIAM: I don't think that drugs are the answer. I don't know where the "no"
line stops. I think that certainly processed chemicals are not cool.
Pharmaceuticals are one thing but stuff on the street is stupid for sure.
Marijuana is another issue altogether. I don't know that that falls into a
"drug" category. We, the voters, have legalized it for medicinal purposes
here in California...
STEVE: And over in Arizona.
WILLIAM: ...and over in Arizona. So I think that the common man is making some
sort of statement there and letting it creep back in from its Prohibition
status... You know, a couple of wealthy men back at the turn of the
century kind of stomped it out.
STEVE: And those wealthy men...?
WILLIAM: Hearst and Dupont.
STEVE: There you go.
WILLIAM: There you go. So Prohibition still lives.
STEVE: I feel like I'm doing a Woody Harrelson interview.
WILLIAM: Hey! (laughter from both men)
STEVE: Our guest is William Shockley, of Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman, the CBS
movie, Stolen Women... Sounds like there's a fair amount of fun over there
on the ranch?
WILLIAM: Oh, we have great times.
STEVE: William, in the movie...
WILLIAM: Yes.
STEVE: You play General Custer.
WILLIAM: I do.
STEVE: Okay. So is this a fact-based story? Did this actually happen?
WILLIAM: Based on facts. Uh huh.
STEVE: What's the movie about? Who are the stolen women?
WILLIAM: Janine Turner. Jean Louisa Kelly. Couple of female Caucasian settlers
back when Custer was chasing the Native American across the Kansas
plains...and the United States Government could not find these two
kidnapped women. Custer swept in and within three weeks went l00 miles
and returned them to safety. True story.
STEVE: Did you do a lot of research about Custer?
WILLIAM: I did. I read a bunch, bunch, bunch...
STEVE: Yeah. What kind of guy was he?
WILLIAM: Uh--well, I think I tried to bring an element of what I
considered sophistication and education, military training--East Coast
breeding...a man of his times...not a criminal but employed by the United
States Government, following the laws of the United States Government, to
go out and number one: fight in the Civil War and then after that
basically to kill the Native American. I mean, that's what he did.
Unfortunately.
STEVE: That is what he did. I mean, obviously, you're placing a judgment on
it.
WILLIAM: No. I'm not saying that he was bad. I'm saying he was a product of his
times. He was not alone at these battles. It wasn't a one man show. The
United States Government paid plenty of men to suit up and try to conquer
the Native Americans. Which they did.
STEVE: But if you're playing Custer you can't think of what he's doing--or you
can't think of him as a bad guy, right?
WILLIAM: I didn't think of him as a bad guy at all. I found him... I mean, I
portrayed him as I thought him to be: not someone walking around
feeling like a bad guy, but someone walking around feeling like a hero.
You know, he was. He had accolades from the time he was in his early 20s.
He made General at 23. That's pretty swift. You know, he was fearless. He
loved the art of war. He admired the 'noble savage;--the American
Indian--but it didn't mean that he didn't want to do battle with them at
the same time. You know, he respected them in his own way. He truly did.
For their cunningness and their fearlessness...their ability to do war
with less weaponry...communicate by smoke and mirror. So he was pretty hip
to that whole thing. (Chuckle) You know--he dug it.
STEVE: So he went on to Little Big Horn
WILLIAM: He did. Where he met his match.
STEVE: Where he met his match.
WILLIAM: That's right.
STEVE: And did you do any looking into that?
WILLIAM: Didn't need to...
STEVE: Obviously, it didn't have anything to do with...
WILLIAM: No. I mean, I read My Life On the Plains, which in his own hand--
in his own words gives you some insight...just in the vocabulary he
used...that he was a well read, well spoken man. But obviously he didn't
write much about Little Big Horn himself. (laughter)
STEVE: Didn't see it coming
WILLIAM: No. He defied his scouts who told him not to go there. And then they
had miscommunication. One of the spokes of the attack fell off, which he
did not know about. Therefore, he was outnumbered.
STEVE: Funny, you've done all this period stuff...because you seem like such
a modern, hip guy.
WILLIAM: I wish you were a producer at Paramount or something. That would be
great. (laughter)
STEVE: Growing up, William, you moved around an awful lot. I don't know
if it's true or if that's an exaggeration, but it says that you moved 20
times in 20 years.
WILLIAM: That's it.
STEVE: 20 times in 20 years?
WILLIAM: 20 addresses. Yeah.
STEVE: Why was that? Why was there so much moving around?
WILLIAM: Corporate America. The wheels were turning and my dad just
bought into the whole scene. He uh...
STEVE: (Laughs) You are Mr. Anti-Establishment, aren't you?
WILLIAM: Uh... In some ways, I think it's healthy to be. In other ways it pays
off not to be. You know? But once again, you have to test what waters fit
your certain lifestyle. Make your own decision.
STEVE: What did Dad do for a living?
WILLIAM: He was working for a big company which transferred people all over
America.
STEVE: 20 times in 20 years. What does that do to you? How does that effect
you?
WILLIAM: I don't know.
STEVE: As a kid?
WILLIAM: You know, you don't have anything to compare it against. You know?
What do you do: sit there and fantasize about a guy that never moved?
That's all you know.
STEVE: It seems like an awful lot of actors I talked to went through a similar
experience. there must be some sort of connection between acting and
moving around a lot.
WILLIAM: Could be. There's a nomadicness to acting. I have a gig on Dr. Quinn
year after year. That's unusual. Normally it's gig to gig to gig, and
there's a gypsy quality to that which is, you know, acceptable.
STEVE: You're also heavy into the music scene, is that correct?
WILLIAM: I like music a lot.
STEVE: Yeah? You got a band?
WILLIAM: I've been in a band my whole life.
STEVE: What band are you in right now?
WILLIAM: Uh--Well, at the moment it's a transition, to be honest.
STEVE: Transition?
WILLIAM: Yeah. Like all great bands: it's hard to keep personalities in
synch. You know what I'm saying?
STEVE: Believe me, I think it's unbelievable that bands stay together as long
as they do.
WILLIAM: I never used to understand it-- growing up. Cause you get so distraught
when your band breaks up. You know even somebody like the Beatles. You're
just destoyed your whole life; you mourn forever. You know, looking
back on it, I'm sure that John and Yoko were a much cooler thing in John's
mind than another stupid year with the boys. You know?
STEVE: That's very true.
WILLIAM: You know, sometimes a woman takes precedence.
STEVE: So has your band broken up? Is that it?
WILLIAM: There's kinks in the thing, but that doesn't mean anything. You know,
there's always kinks in something.
STEVE: There's all those stories about Fleetwood Mac in the 70s when they
were at the peak of their success and they'd all dated each other...
WILLIAM: Uh huh. Sure. And that's not healthy either.
STEVE: That's not good. They'd all actually leave a concert venue like in five
limosines going in five different directions.
WILLIAM: I can fully understand it. It's pathetic, but it's real. You know?
STEVE: Now what kind of music are you into?
WILLIAM: I like everything. Truly. I mean, my CD collection is vast.
STEVE: Like, if you went home to the CD player what would be in there right
now?
WILLIAM: Uh, well, there's a little bit of everything. There's tons of mixed
music. I mean--I actually mix down the CD from CD through a mixing board
through a digital audio tape process.
STEVE: Geez. So.. You mix...
WILLIAM: Onto a CD. I go from CD through a mixing board onto digital audio tape
through a computer, back onto a CD. So it's up to 73 minutes of just mixed
tunes.
STEVE: So you record your own CDs?
WILLIAM: Like a DJ. Exactly.
STEVE: Wow.
WILLIAM: Cause I have a restaurant in Austin, Texas, that I play these tunes at.
STEVE: Really?
WILLIAM: Yes, indeed.
STEVE: What's the restaurant?
WILLIAM: Cafe Josie.
STEVE: Cafe Josie?
WILLIAM: l0th Street. (NOTE: The address is 6th Street--but it sounds like he
says l0th on the tape)
STEVE: How long has this restaurant been around?
WILLIAM: June 22. (NOTE: It opened Feb. 22, l997, but the tape sounds
like he said June)
STEVE: What kind of food you got there?
WILLIAM: An equatorial pantry. Spices indigenous to the equator: North Africa,
Indonesia, and South America.
STEVE: I don't think I've had any of that. They got that over at McDonald's?
WILLIAM: I think so. Some of the cooks--they moonlight.
STEVE: McQuator?
WILLIAM: McQuator. The McQuator--new at Cafe Josie.
STEVE: Really, what is that?
WILLIAM: I'm really not sure what the spices are. Our excutive chef is a friend
of mine for about 5 years, and he's an Austinite. Been a chef there for
25 years. So he's hip to the trip, skip. And I don't know what that might
be.
STEVE: Is the food spicy?
WILLIAM: Yes. It's very colorful. Very spicy.
STEVE: Is it meat and potatoes?
WILLIAM: It's pasta, chicken, fish, beef, salads, appetizers...all driven by
these spices. Yeah, um...so it's quite eclectic.
STEVE: And how did you get into this business?
WILLIAM: A friend of mine from college is in the restaurant business
and commercial real estate business in Austin. And he and
another good buddy--the three of us--got together with a few other
Austinites and raised some cash and became limited partners.
STEVE: You got all this stuff going on: you got the TV show, TV movie, the
band maybe...
WILLIAM: Yeah, maybe. The weakest link in my life.
STEVE: You got the restaurant...
WILLIAM: That's true.
STEVE: Do you have trouble focusing on one thing or do you need a lot going
on? Do you need to have a lot of balls up in the air?
WILLIAM: I think so. I think anybody... I'm sure you do. I know you do. You
know, it's not a monochromatic existence. You know what I'm saying?
STEVE: I've had different periods of my life where I'm concentrating on way
too many things. You do a lot of things, you know, okay, and nothing
especially well.
WILLIAM: Well, there's the jack of all trades and the master of none theory. And
that's not healthy or good probably. But I think it's important to feel
around and see what really your passion is and then just glue it into one
or two or three things.
STEVE: Now, how much time do you spend in Texas?
WILLIAM: As much as possible.
STEVE: Yeah?
WILLIAM: Sure.
STEVE: Is that where you consider home to be?
WILLIAM: I'm sure that my heart is there, so to speak. I think it's a soulful
place to be from and living in the City of the Angels can get a little bit
weird.
STEVE: Yeah? What's weird about LA to you?
WILLIAM: Umm--okay. If you--say--go to Austin, and I've also lived in Lubbock--
there's a true sense of community, which I don't think Los Angeles can
have. You can have pockets, but you don't have like a true sense of the
neighborhood. Get the door for the lady, you know, make sure the little
old lady's across the street... We're blowing our horns and screaming and
flipping people off and shooting people. It's just stupid. It's insane.
It's driven by things other than human concerns.
STEVE: And, man, the business you are in is.....
WILLIAM: Sick.
STEVE: There aren't a lot of genuine people.
WILLIAM: You can seek them out. I think there are genuine people everywhere.
Every business has their crummy, snakey people...but I mean, you know when
you have a billion or two dollars on the table any given day, you're going
to get a lot of interesting folks trying to grab a piece of the pie.
STEVE: That's for sure. Listen, I appreciate you spending some time with us
tonight.
WILLIAM: Thank you.
STEVE: Very interesting. The show is Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman and this Sunday
is the CBS telefilm, Stolen Women...you, Janine Turner, and...
WILLIAM: Patrick Bergin. Michael Greyeyes.
STEVE: Patrick Bergin? Terrific.
WILLIAM: Cool actor. Dennis Weaver...
STEVE: Good cast.
WILLIAM: Great Cast.
STEVE: Sunday night at nine, right after that angel show.
WILLIAM: "Touched By An Angel." Yeah, man, kick some booty.
STEVE: That angel is kicking some booty.
WILLIAM: Number three in the nation last week.
STEVE: William Shockley, nice meeting you, man.
WILLIAM: Nice meeting you. Thanks for having me.
STEVE: Tamala Jones from Booty Call is here next.
WILLIAM: "Show me the money."
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